Robert Novak commenting on the upcoming (8/15/04) Kerry bom

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Robert Novak commenting on the upcoming (8/15/04) Kerry bom

The problem is, Kerry is denying all through the tactic of attacking those making the accusations. He has not produced a real defense of the charges at all. I do not think he can. I have read and researched about all that is out there and nothing in the Kerry quiver is a defense.The "I believe those who served on his boat" falls apart when one discovers the nature of the unit and realizes that those folks only served with Old Rice Butt for 2 to under six weeks. Those making the accusations served for months. The entire paper trail with the exception of the paperwork Kerry himself prepared agree with his accusers.The spin over Cambodia is even more embarrassing. There is a day by day history of Kerry's location. He was never, ever in Cambodia. All his claims and all 9 of his different stories on the issue are simply lies.The Purple Heart stories he tells do not give with the eyewitness accounts of those who were there.His "complete" records on his web site lack over 2/3 of the supporting documents.He cannot confront this stuff with anything so he must obfiscate and attack the messenger. The sad part is the willingness of the partisan media to aid and abett.

Anonymous
Robert Novak commenting on the upcoming (8/15/04) Kerry bom

I believe that sometime next week, Mr. Kerry will be forced to have a press conference to explain his apparent blatant lies about his heroics in Vietnam.Oracle
-------------------------------------------------

Kerry's war record
by
Robert Novak (archive)
August 9, 2004
WASHINGTON, D.C. -- The television ad that aroused the wrath of John McCain and journalist supporters of John Kerry just begins deconstruction of the Democratic presidential candidate's war record. "Unfit for Command: Swift Boat Veterans Speak Out Against John Kerry," a 214-page critique of his performance in Vietnam and the antiwar movement, is off the presses ahead of schedule.

I have read the book and found it is neither the political propaganda nor the urban legend that its detractors claim. It is a passionate but meticulously researched account of how Kerry went to war, what he did in the war and how he conducted himself after the war. The very serious charges by former comrades deserve answers but so far have produced only ad hominem counterattacks. Why should details of what Kerry did more than 30 years ago be part of this election campaign? Only because the senator has made them integral to his strategy. Kerry as war hero received more attention at the Democratic National Convention than plans for the future. Thus, what he did in his shortened four months of combat becomes a valid campaign issue. John E. O'Neill, co-author of "Unfit for Command," replaced Kerry as commander of Swift Boat PCF 94 in 1969 and has been confronting him since 1971. O'Neill told me he is no George W. Bush partisan and probably would have supported John Edwards had he been nominated for president, but is committed to keeping Kerry out of the Oval Office. Thus, reversing the usual formulation, the assault on Kerry is personal but not political. O'Neill told me neither he nor his co-author (Jerome R. Corsi, a writer and expert on the Vietnam antiwar movement) has had contact with the Bush White House or the Bush-Cheney campaign. He said he and Corsi, on their own initiative, went to conservative Regnery Publishing to offer the book. The co-authors paint Kerry as a reluctant warrior. Contrary to claims by Kerry's supporters that he served two combat hitches in Vietnam, his one-year term aboard a guided missile frigate was far from action. His four months in the brown water navy were terminated eight months early by a third Purple Heart wound, none of which required hospitalization. The book's strength is the vehemence of testimony by swift boat veterans, alleging that Kerry "gamed" the system to win decorations and later betrayed comrades by charging war crimes. Typical is the quote by Bob Hildreth, commanding an accompanying boat: "I would never want Kerry behind me. I wouldn't want him in front of me, either. And I sure wouldn't want him commanding our kids in Iraq and Afghanistan." Some 200 "Swiftees" on May 4 signed a letter to Kerry demanding full release of his service records. The book's weakness is support for Kerry's presidential campaign by his swift boat crewmates, presumably people who knew him best. O'Neill told me that these former sailors served with Kerry no more than five weeks. Jim Rassmann, now part of the Kerry presidential campaign, was a Special Forces lieutenant spending a few days with Kerry when he fell or was knocked off the swift boat while under fire and was fished out of the Mekong River by the future candidate. The "band of brothers" was organized by Kerry, according to this book. It tells of a 2003 telephone call to Adm. Roy Hoffmann, who commanded swift boats in Vietnam, telling him he was running for president. Hoffmann, mistakenly thinking it was former Sen. Bob Kerrey, "responded enthusiastically." Once the admiral realized it was John Kerry, "he declined to give Kerry his support." Hoffmann is quoted as saying, "I do not believe John Kerry is fit to be commander in chief of the armed forces of the United States." "Unfit for Command" sends a devastating message, unless effectively refuted. Perhaps most disturbing are allegations that Kerry's combat decorations are unjustified. His first Purple Heart, the book alleges, was accidentally self-inflicted. His commander, Grant Hibbard, is quoted as saying: "I didn't recommend him for a Purple Heart. Kerry probably wrote up the paperwork and recommended himself." Full release of documents demanded by his critics could settle this claim quickly if it is unwarranted. й2004 Creators Syndicate, Inc.

thejohnchapman
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Re: Robert Novak commenting on the upcoming (8/15/04) Kerry

Oracle:Apparently, according to Novak:[b]"Typical is the quote by Bob Hildreth, commanding an accompanying boat: "I would never want Kerry behind me. I wouldn't want him in front of me, either. And I sure wouldn't want him commanding our kids in Iraq and Afghanistan."[/b]Well, if that is the "typical" quote, it is so much BS. I imagine that, if anybody had a date, time and place where Kerry ran away and they stayed to fight, that'd justify some of the vitrol. I'd like some specific examples of cowardice, bsd judgment, or ineptitude under fire, to justify the criticism of his COMBAT resume. Again, I'm almost certainly not going to vote for Kerry. However, I see the grousing by these vets as misguided, misplaced, and possibly counter productive. I didn't like Jane Fonda either, but unlike her, Kerry shot and killed badguys in combat, and earned the right to his unpopular opinions.[ 08-10-2004: Message edited by: thejohnchapman ]

Mike G
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Re: Robert Novak commenting on the upcoming (8/15/04) Kerry

TJCI would not want to judge someone's conduct during a war, especially as I've never been in combat nor desire to be. That's why I'm agin it, war that is.War is serious business, one that is taken too lightly by those who don't have to serve, and those too ignorant or too willing and foolhardy or thrill-seeking to engage in it.As far as the difference between the two, Kerry, Bush, I find little solace in voting for either, they both can insulate themselves and their families from paying the ultimate price, death.Kerry, seems to be the least intelligent of the two, by thinking that Vietnam was a noble cause, then changing his mind once there. Bush, by either his own design or having a more intelligent influential father, understood that there were better ways to SERVE your country, pun intended, then coming home in a bag.We should concentrate on the issues, be that, Bush-lite or Kerry-lite, either is a no-win situation. They both are dragging this country down.

Anonymous
Re: Robert Novak commenting on the upcoming (8/15/04) Kerry

Both sides of the truth no doubt.

Thomas O
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Re: Robert Novak commenting on the upcoming (8/15/04) Kerry

quote: WASHINGTON - One of the authors of a new anti-John Kerry (news - web sites) book frequently posted comments on a conservative Web site describing Muslims and Catholics as pedophiles and Pope John Paul (news - web sites) II as senile.

Wingman, I find it amusing that you would take umbrage with the man's comments. No, I cannot cite it, but you have mirrored a couple of those views, as have I. You devil you.

Al Amoling
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Re: Robert Novak commenting on the upcoming (8/15/04) Kerry

I stayed up late last night and read from cover to cover the book "Unfit for Command — Swift Boat Veterans Speak Out Against John Kerry." An impartial reader (if there is still such a beast in this election season) would have to conclude that either the book is a pack of lies or John Kerry is in fact a reckless, lying man who misrepresented the facts in order to receive medals he didn't deserve, and is indeed unfit to command even a tug boat, let alone the United States military as president.
The book appears to be meticulously researched and reported. It is replete with copious footnotes, a detailed index and two appendices. First-hand witnesses are named and quoted verbatim to support each specific, shocking charge. Each charge of false heroics is logically presented. Theauthors quote the official Navy citation and then present the purported eyewitnesstestimony that refutes the official finding. The witnesses who are summoned forth are officers and men who served simultaneously with Mr. Kerry in Coastal Division 11 and purport to be eyewitnesses to the events in question.
And yet, there is another group of men, the sailors who served directly under John Kerry on the same boat with him — his band of brothers. They have traveled around the country with Mr. Kerry and have vouched for his description of his heroic, able and selfless service to our country.
One of these groups of men are lying through their teeth. This is not a case of failed memories. In a few instances, it could be a case of honest differences of perception of events. But considering all the testimony and evidence, John Kerry is either Dr. Jekyll or Mr. Hyde. As of this moment there is about a 50-50 chance that we will elect, in the person of John Kerry, either a very fine man or a truly despicable man president of the United States.
Either group of men, if we knew nothing else, would seem to be credible, reliable witnesses. Both groups of men served honorably in Vietnam, gained many medals and have apparently lived respectable lives since then. Few if any of them have been politically active in the last 30 years.
The men making the charges are almost all of his fellow officers and the higher chain of command in Kerry's coastal Division 11. The book points out that on John Kerry's Web site he has a photo of himself and 19 fellow swift boat officers, taken while they were simultaneously serving in that unit. Of those 19 fellow officers, 11 have asked him to stop using their image with him. Of the remaining eight, two are deceased, four don't wish to be involved and one is not a supporter of Kerry but didn't have the opportunity to sign the letter calling for the photo to be taken off the Web site. Only one of the 19, Skip Barker, supports Mr. Kerry.
There has been some confusion about whether the witnesses against Kerry had an adequate view of his conduct, compared with the view of his supporters who were on his boat. The book explains that the swift boats usually moved in a pack of three or four on the same mission. They operated within yards of each other. Moreover, they all docked, bunked, ate and lived in the same camp.
If one compared their relations to an army company of men, the fellow junior officers who captained the tiny swift boats were the functional equivalent of squad leaders, each with their own handful of men under them. Squad leaders, operating on the same mission together, are in excellent positions to assess the performance of their fellow squad leaders. They are covering each other's flanks. The book is filled with testimony of these men, describing what they claim they clearly saw John Kerry doing and not doing.
Of course, almost every presidential campaign has an outcropping of scandal charges. Usually it is by one or two people — a woman who claimed she met the candidate in a bar, some political opponent from a long forgotten campaign reprieving his shopworn, uncorroborated calumny. If a book is involved in such charges, the opposing party usually finds a hack ghost-writer.
But this scandal charge is by more than 200 respectable former naval officers and men. The primary author, John O'Neill, first started publicly challenging Mr. Kerry more than 30 years ago on the Dick Cavett Show. The co-author, Jerome Corsi, is not a political hack, but a college friend of Mr. O'Neill, with a Ph.D. from Harvard and a distinguished writing career.
The book has the ring of sincerity to it, and the mark of careful research and writing. If they are not telling the truth, all these men have exposed themselves to financially ruinous libel actions by Mr. Kerry — who has the private resources to prosecute such actions. Even as a public figure, he might well win such an action, if this book is the pack of lies the Kerry camp says it is.
If it is not a pack of lies, the nation needs to know that, too. I would encourage some of the major voices of the non-conservative mainline media — Tim Russert, Dan Rather, Leonard Downie Jr. of The Washington Post — to do as I did. Spend an evening reading the book. If they are not struck by the damning picture it paints of John Kerry and the credibility of the presentation, forget about it. But if they judge it as I did, then let their consciences be their guide. [url=http://www.washingtontimes.com/op-ed/20040810-100236-4377r.htm]http://ww...

James
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Re: Robert Novak commenting on the upcoming (8/15/04) Kerry

quote:Originally posted by Wingman:
[QB]AP outs Corsi ....

The "nuts and sluts" Clinton defense will not work here. There are 254 vets involved. 9 Silver stars, officers all the way up to vice-admiral. 60 sworn statements, etc.It does not matter what flaws one or a dozen of these vets have nor their links to evil conservatives.What matters is...did Old Rice Butt fake his record? That he did. Beyond a shadow of a doubt. ;)

James
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Re: Robert Novak commenting on the upcoming (8/15/04) Kerry

quote:And yet, there is another group of men, the sailors who served directly under John Kerry on the same boat with him — his band of brothers. They have traveled around the country with Mr. Kerry and have vouched for his description of his heroic, able and selfless service to our country. One of these groups of men are lying through their teeth.

Not necessarily. Kerry's supporters served only a matter of a few weeks with him, some as few as two weeks. They may well have found him a good CO based on their very brief service together.The problem is, the Swifties spent FAR more time serving with Kerry. I expect this to keep growing as a scandal. I listened to the radio the last few days and I heard scores of irate veterans hollaring at ol Rice Rice Butt. ;)

LMD
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Re: Robert Novak commenting on the upcoming (8/15/04) Kerry

quote: But this scandal charge is by more than 200 respectable former naval officers and men. The primary author, John O'Neill, first started publicly challenging Mr. Kerry more than 30 years ago on the Dick Cavett Show.

"The following transcript is taken from ABC's special June 30, 1971 broadcast of "The Dick Cavett Show," during which former Navy Lieutenant John Kerry represented Vietnam Veterans Against the War. [i]He was opposed by fellow Navy veteran John O'Neill, representing Vietnam Veterans for a Just Peace[/i].[url=http://swift1.he.net/~swiftvet/index.php?topic=KerryONeill]http://swift1...Enjoy!
:roll: :roll:

LewistonLiberal
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Re: Robert Novak commenting on the upcoming (8/15/04) Kerry

And O'Neil has hated him ever since. Period.This whole thing is about Kerry's opposition to the war, not about his record.They hated him for coming home and saying we shouldn't be there. The same way people hated Clinton for opposing the war.Hate. Nothing more, nothing less.Chris.

James
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Re: Robert Novak commenting on the upcoming (8/15/04) Kerry

quote:Originally posted by Lewiston Liberal:
[b]And O'Neil has hated him ever since. Period.This whole thing is about Kerry's opposition to the war, not about his record.They hated him for coming home and saying we shouldn't be there. The same way people hated Clinton for opposing the war.Hate. Nothing more, nothing less.Chris.[/b]

I thought that, "hate" was the entire reason to vote against Bush.Don't matter. 254 Vets say the man is unfit. Sluts and Nuts will not work with the public.Either he faked his record or he didn't.So far the evidence says he faked it.Old Rice Butt is in trouble.

Anonymous
Re: Robert Novak commenting on the upcoming (8/15/04) Kerry

LL (Chris) for a man with your education and background, you never cease to surpise me.Whenever you make what I call "absolute statements" on some of these AMG postings, which are political in nature, you rarely seem to want to believe that contrary to your personal feelings about a matter, that a "truth" is just that and nothing more, and it will not matter one iota if you keep saying over and over again that it's bulls**t. Perhaps you have defended to many clients, whom you knew were guilty as sin, but you knew how to obfuscate so very well, that now your beliefs about anyone whom you disagree with, are as tainted in the telling of the truth as you are.Oracle

knucklehead
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Re: Robert Novak commenting on the upcoming (8/15/04) Kerry

O.K. Here I go...flak jacket on...I don't kneel and kiss the ground over military service (or working as a policeman or firefighter). I look at a man's character. I don't care where Kerry went & what he did. Men of good character fought in many wars...beside men of bad character. I know of a person who screwed the local German people out of their scarce possessions during the occupation, bragging to me about it almost 60 years later. I do NOT congratulate that person on Veteran's Day. I know other men who did not serve in the military but could be an example to any other of us on how to be real men.Character is character. I did not kneel to the "respect the office" crap during the Klinton Seige, and I do not bow to the "service" BS about Kerry. All of the information I can glean tells me he went on an exciting, risky adventure as a rich young officer, never intending to do anything else but make a small name for himself. If it wasn't his intention to use it to increase his image - or obfuscate his Senate record, he'd keep his mouth shut. Does Kerry have greater right to tell his story because he's....someone? Does a man's service remain sacred after he comes home and acts like an ass for the following 30 years? Let the others speak!Pound me all you want, veterans...character is the issue.

knucklehead
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Re: Robert Novak commenting on the upcoming (8/15/04) Kerry

Holey Smokes! TWO POSTS in a row to use the word obfuscate! What's up with THAT?

James
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Re: Robert Novak commenting on the upcoming (8/15/04) Kerry

One cannot obfuscate through bloviation!Old Rice Butt is in trouble. When the first partisan media source breaks the story, it iwll hit the fan.

LewistonLiberal
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Re: Robert Novak commenting on the upcoming (8/15/04) Kerry

Oracle: here is what I posted elsewhere..

quote: For the record I'll say what I've always said.
When Clinton lied to the American People about his affair, to me that was impeachable.When he lied in a cheesy frivolous lawsuit (to my eyes, and to the eyes of the judge who tossed it out) that was no high crime. It was poor personal conduct not affecting the nation.I supported the impeachment.If it is true Kerry lied about all this military stuff, then I'll accept that too and say he is not fit for command because he built his whole persona on something so clearly verifiable - which shows extremem stupidity.For the record I campaigned hard AGAINST Kerry in the primary. I just don't like him much.So thats it - a liberal dem admitting lies by liberals, and saying dump my guy if he lied.BY CONTRAST. When faced with the lies of their Glorious Leader, the Right Wing again circle the wagon and say things like
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sorry, a "lie" is not a "lie".
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------(James).
When the preisdent sends a bill to the congress KNOWING it to be false and INTIMIDATING people into hiding the truth...That is far worse than the impeachable lie Clinton told America about his sex life. Infinately worse.But you, James, fopp it off as "Everyone does it." Wrong.Indefendsible.Bush's admin is corrupt to the core.Chris.

c

James
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Re: Robert Novak commenting on the upcoming (8/15/04) Kerry

Sorry, no comparison. Mis-stating the cost of a Bill to Congress, when no bill is ever stated correctly to Congress, does not hold a candle to lying about military heroism. That the left tries to make such a comparison is symbolic of the desparation to make this entire story go away.It will, in November. ;)

LewistonLiberal
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Re: Robert Novak commenting on the upcoming (8/15/04) Kerry

Do you see the difference between you and me James?I'm willing to admit and condemn when my side does bad things.You, on the other hand, are so blinded by your utter faith in You and Yours and hatred of All Who Dare Disagree you can't even admit something so appalling as the Bush Medicare Scam.Bush's administration (I won't say Bush, I don't think he gets anywhere near such measly details) purposely and with full intent to deceive gave false numbers knowingly to Congress.I don't give a rat's as if everyone does it. If you know the info you are providing is false, its a lie, and its a lie to me. End of story.If you can't admit that, well, my regrets for you.Chris.

James
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Re: Robert Novak commenting on the upcoming (8/15/04) Kerry

When my side does a bad thing, like the stupid idea to legalize all those ilegals in the middle of a war on terror, or when they refuse to profile but preferr to search grannie, I attack my side.The difference is, I do not take your list of pretend failings of my President as anything worthy of criticism. In fact, I find most of the lefties laundry list of real and imagined offences, laudable. :D Remember, I am not the one that is pretending a fake war hero is qualified to be president.[ 08-11-2004: Message edited by: James ]

Anonymous
Re: Robert Novak commenting on the upcoming (8/15/04) Kerry

IMHO: The two issues that will define the election will be the economy and our current situation in Iraq. By November, Kerry's four months in Vietnam will be a non-issue.

MGReilly
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Re: Robert Novak commenting on the upcoming (8/15/04) Kerry

Kerry's four month in Vietnam is a non-issue now... the appearance before Congress in the time after is however... a BIG issue....

James
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Re: Robert Novak commenting on the upcoming (8/15/04) Kerry

The Portland Socialist is still dodging the issue, 10 days and counting.The local bookstores do not have the book though they are taking advance orders.The one chapter I have read is damning.Old Rice Butt is a fraud.

LMD
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Re: Robert Novak commenting on the upcoming (8/15/04) Kerry

quote:Originally posted by George:
[b]The thing that pisses me off is the idea that it is OK for Kerrey to run on his service in Vietname but it is not OK for anyone to be critical of his service in Vietnam. By making his service the centerpiece of his campaign, he has made a critical look at his service a legitimate part of the campaign.[/b]

I agree, George. I would also add that it was Senator Kerry himself who said, when Bill Clinton was running for President, that the issue of someone's service (or lack of, in the case of Clinton) shouldn't be made an issue.Kerry is pulling a typical in-your-face flip-flop with this issue. Military service isn't an issue when a Democrat DOESN'T have it; it IS an issue when a REPUBLICAN supposedly DOESN'T have it.Senator Kerry is a legend in his own mind.

James
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Re: Robert Novak commenting on the upcoming (8/15/04) Kerry

But the ultimate insult is the utter in your face bias on the part of the partisan media. The absolutely refuse to treat this the same way they gleefully did the "Bush AWOL" BS.They seem to think Old Rice Butt will survive if they just do not mention the scandal.

LMD
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Re: Robert Novak commenting on the upcoming (8/15/04) Kerry

How true, James...how true!!!

LewistonLiberal
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Re: Robert Novak commenting on the upcoming (8/15/04) Kerry

And yet James, you seem to forget, it took 3 years for the press to chomp at the bait of the Bush AWOL story. Why?Dems tried to make it an inssue during the campaig, but it was completely ignored.Again, why?You Righties seem to think that if the entire media en masse does not make a Democrats Are Evil Scandal page one, top of the news on the immediate day that you learn of it and if they don't run it 24/7 then its an outrage and being ignored...And whey they actually run it (as they did with EVERY Clinton "scandal") you say they were shamed into running it...This "scandal" will dominate the whole election because the Righties will make it issue#1. Not terrorism. Not dipolmatic abilities. Not knowledge of the issues. Once again, Issue#1 will be something that happened 30 years ago.Are you happy with that system?Anywho.Chris.

James
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Re: Robert Novak commenting on the upcoming (8/15/04) Kerry

quote:Originally posted by Lewiston Liberal:
[QB]And yet James, you seem to forget, it took 3 years for the press to chomp at the bait of the Bush AWOL story.

Three years? This BS has been reported as serious news since before the war. The local media were running letters to the editor and other BS WAY before that. No evidence of any wrongdoing, just a gap in the 30 year old paper record, and the media was off and running. Thousands of articles and news reports later, what do we have, nothing.Here we have socres of sworn statements AND a paper trail and how do they handle it? Crickets. Why? because Kerry is THEIR guy.

quote:
And whey they actually run it (as they did with EVERY Clinton "scandal") you say they were shamed into running it...

That is because they were. The details would come out on the internet complete with names and witnesses and later, much later, the partisan media would begin to report it, generally in the form of staatements and editorials explaining why perjury and obstructions were really not crimes worth considering.

quote:
This "scandal" will dominate the whole election because the Righties will make it issue#1. Not terrorism. Not dipolmatic abilities. Not knowledge of the issues. Once again, Issue#1 will be something that happened 30 years ago.

Say what? Republicans designed the Kerry Convention and campaign to revolve around one and only one qualification, his now known to be fake war record!!Sorry, Old Rice Butt did that to himself.

Anonymous
Re: Robert Novak commenting on the upcoming (8/15/04) Kerry

LL (Chris) my friend....please, stop these tit-for-tat arguments you keep using.Pure and simple, Mr Kerry himself, opened the door about his service in Vietnam. Making it a point for us all to recognize that he received numerous medals for his "alleged" heroics,
and so called serious wounds received, as a result of his rather short tour of duty during that very long and insane "war".It's up to him now to come forward, mano-to- mano, and dispute in all candor what his fellow sailors who served right there with him at that time, are saying about him if it's not true.Let us all just see how this plays out. I can tell you this; I would not like to be in John Kerry's shoes next week or the week after that.

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