Idiotic "militia" standoff in Oregon

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Jasper
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"You will not hear any of

"You will not hear any of this on the MSM" It's all over the MSM, cave-dweller.

Bruce Libby
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Ugenetoo

Ugenetoo
Even the sipsystreetirregulars have not deployed from the basement ( bunker) on this one .
Maybe,thanks to daddy, ( the new Jefferson) the credibility of this type of action has diminished.

pmconusa
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The United States has not

The United States has not been governed by the original Constitution since John Marshal upheld the National Bank act and opined the Congress could do just about anything that was not prohibited by the Constitution. The Constitution itself is not law but the power to make law and its first power enables the Congress to tax to pay for the defense and general welfare of the United States. This is tantamount to a law requiring a balanced budget because it requires taxes, not borrowing to offset the cost of government. Borrowing when necessary is provided in a separate power and was necessary in the beginning just as a state issues revenue anticipation bonds until a sufficient revenue stream is obtained through taxes.

Each time the Congress incurs an expense it is obligated under the law to tax to pay for it. It was never intended that the United States ever ran up a debt once the country got on its feet. That we own over $18 trillion and incurring more every day is proof positive that the Congress is not obeying the law. Because so many benefit (51% at least) this law breaking will not be ended at the ballot box.

Ugenetoo
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Bruce.

Bruce.
I had come to expect more from this site than poorly informed ramblings.

Bruce Libby
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Ugenetoo I had some of those

Ugenetoo I had some of those expectations also.
Having them met has been hindered by the amount of voices who
chose to leave AMG for whatever reasons and or limit their contributions IMO.
Wish to contribute what you see as misinformed ramblings could be helpful or not .

Roger Ek
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The controlled burn at the

The controlled burn at the center of this whole flap was on leased land 20 years go! It is a normal land mnafement practice employed by responsible and managers all over the West. We don't do controlled burns in Maine. In fact, every puff of smoke freaks out the MFS. Ever notice that he disasterous fires out west are always on federal lands?

Tom C
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Mike G
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The whole federal lands in

The whole federal lands in the west is one for a major conversation by our country that will never happen.

I assume it is about all the regime has for collateral for our huge national debt other than the gold in our teeth and our savings in 401ks and banks.

Those lands should have been better managed and distributed decades ago,

Tom C

great find on Eric Holder occupying the ROTC! Power to the People!

taxfoe
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Rep. Walden get's it. I'm

Rep. Walden get's it. I'm not familiar with his entire body of work but on this issue, he gets it. Thanks for posting that.

Many who have never lived more than a half hour from an interstate won't ever get it and they are, unfortunately, the majority.

The Bundy's are to be commended.

The video also deals with an Obama threat to declare a national monument nearby. Isn't there someone trying to buy one of those for ME? Hmmmmmmmmm . .

Rebecca
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I'm just not seeing anything

I'm just not seeing anything on the background of the people involved on the prosecutions side of this argument other than the linc previously posted. I am seeing much about the individuals holding the federal property but not=hing about the Obama appointed judge or her background in other reports. Perhaps Jasper could share the links with us and prove his/her point.

Just a question: Is it possible that this is some of the land that Hillary(while still Sect. of State) sold to the Russians in her back door deal for a contribution to her "foundation"? The video pointed out that uranium and gold are integral to the property in question.

BlueJay
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This is one of the best, most

This is one of the best, most passionate speeches I've heard in a long time. It makes the case for the Bundy's actions, despite earlier comments about their being "stupid" and "idiotic".

Government over-reach is a major problem and Walden explains this scenario very well.

Walden is one of the members of Congress who needs to be kept in office along with a few others who are willing to stand up and fight to keep our Constitution.

Thank you, Tom C. A good find.

Abacus
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The controlled burn at the

The controlled burn at the center of this whole flap was on leased land 20 years go! It is a normal land mnafement practice employed by responsible and managers all over the West. ~Roger Ek

The controlled burn in question was setting backfire to stop a wildfire that started from a lightning strike. It consumed some of the abutting Forest Service land and they were tried for arson as a result. The whole thing is stupid and manufactured to get the off their land since they refused to sell to the FS.

I understand their plight, and also understand what is going on with the Bundy's. They are doing this merely to focus attention on the issue since they have been ignored or mislabeled for so long. The Bundy's responded due to a similar reason and of course the Hammond's said they don't want them there, they'd be guilty by association. Even the feds said the outpost they occupy isn't manned and there weren't even locks on the doors, so they didn't break in. This is for publicity, nothing more, and it's working. I disagree with it, but the results are working.

I also agree that the normal channels don't work, plain and simple. The avenue for redress doesn't exist and that's the way it's designed. These people have tried that avenue and found that out the hard way, but you can't say they didn't try.

I have kept abreast of the Bundy issue since it began years ago. If the government could ever be prosecuted for wrongdoings, they should have been for what they did. But instead they are STILL seen as the victim here. It's no wonder these people are willing to take alternative measures, nothing to date has worked. I'm just surprised no one has died from the whole mess. That alone speaks volumes of how far the Bundy's are willing to take this, to try every avenue short of violence, and they should be commended for it, not excoriated like AMG did. As I said, I disagree with their tactics, but I also understand since I bothered to learn about the backstory and the constant train of travesties they've endured at the hands of our government.

Spider
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Believe it....or not.http:/

Believe it....or not.
http://danaloeschradio.com/the-real-story-of-the-bundy-ranch
The Real Story Behind The Bundy Ranch Harassment
________________________________________
By now you're familiar with the standoff between the federal government, i.e. the Bureau of Land Management, and 67 year-old rancher Cliven Bundy. (If not, check the backstory and my radio interview with him here.) The BLM asserts their power through the expressed desire to protect the endangered desert tortoise, a tortoise so "endangered" that their population can no longer be contained by the refuge constructed for them so the government is closing it and euthanizing over a thousand tortoises. The tortoises, the excuse that BLM has given for violating claims to easements and running all but one lone rancher out of southern Nevada, is doing fine. In fact, the tortoise has lived in harmony with cattle in the Gold Butte, Clark County Nevada for over a hundred years, or as long as Cliven Bundy's family has lived on the land as ranchers. In fact, the real threat to it is urbanization, not cattle. A tortoise isn't the reason why BLM is harassing a 67 year-old rancher. They want his land. The tortoise wasn't of concern when Harry Reid worked BLM to literally change the boundaries of the tortoise's habitat to accommodate the development of his top donor, Harvey Whittemore.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/29/former-nevada-powerbroker_n_335...

Whittemore was convicted of illegal campaign contributions to Senator Reid. Reid's former senior adviser is now the head of BLM.
http://lasvegas.cbslocal.com/2014/04/09/nevadan-named-blm-chief/
Reid is accused of using the new BLM chief as a puppet to control Nevada land (already over 84% of which is owned by the federal government) and pay back special interests. BLM has proven that they've a situational concern for the desert tortoise as they've had no problem waiving their rules concerning wind or solar power development. Clearly these developments have vastly affected a tortoise habitat more than a century-old, quasi-homesteading grazing area. If only Clive Bundy were a big Reid donor. BLM has also tried to argue that the rules have changed, long after Bundy claims he secured rights and paid his dues to Clark County, Nevada. BLM says they supersede whatever agreement Bundy had prior; they demanded that he reduce his living, his thousand-some-odd head of cattle down to a tiny herd of 150. It's easy for the government to grant itself powers of overreach, but it doesn't make it right. Many bad things are done in the name of unjust laws. Just look at Obamacare. This heavy-handed tactic has run the other ranchers from the area and now Bundy is the last one. He's the last one because he stood up to the federal government. So why does BLM want to run Bundy off this land and is Reid connected? I discussed this on "Kelly File" tonight, video via Jim Hoft. *UPDATE: Those who say Bundy is a "deadbeat" are making inaccurate claims. Bundy has in fact paid fees to Clark County, Nevada in an arrangement pre-dating the BLM. The BLM arrived much later, changed the details of the setup without consulting with Bundy -- or any other rancher -- and then began systematically driving out cattle and ranchers. Bundy refused to pay BLM, especially after they demanded he reduce his heard's head count down to a level that would not sustain his ranch. Bundy OWNS the water and forage rights to this land. He paid for these rights. He built fences, established water ways, and constructed roads with his own money, with the approval of Nevada and BLM. When BLM started using his fees to run him off the land and harassing him, he ceased paying. So should BLM reimburse him for managing the land and for the confiscation of his water and forage rights? Cliven Bundy's problem isn't that he didn't pay -- he did -- or that his cattle bother tortoises -- they don't -- it's that he's not a Reid donor. **One last thought: For those conservatives saying that since BLM arrived in the late 90s, it's the law now, well, so is Obamacare.

Mike G
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Bruce Libby
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Bundys' Nevada, This is

Bundys' Nevada, This is Colorado!

Bruce Libby
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From the PPH.http://www
Roger Ek
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The Bundy has the last

The Bundy family has the last working cattle ranch in southern Nevada. The BLM wants them gone to satisfy the environmental industry, just as they shut down the Pacific Northwest to logging to "save the spotted owl". The spotted owl did not need saving. There was a nesting pair behind the big red K at an abandoned K-Mart. The spotted owl is a nocturnal bird. You don't see them flying around at night. They feed on small rodents. They are not and were not endangered.

The tortoises have lived for thousands of years with buffalo, mule deer, elk and other large animals. They are not endangered. The environmental industry got the Maine DEP to declare a bunch of species as endangered to prevent people from using their land. Some are the yellow lamplighter mussel, the Furbush lousewort and the Orono sedge. None of thee species or any of the others are endangered. The Orono sedge is a weed that grows best in ditches along roads that are salted in the winter. The state mows the ditches and road shoulders every summer, slaughtering those endangered weeds.

In California, there is a particular species of sagebrush. On one side of a valley the federal government is trying to eradicate this particular kind of sagebrush. On the other side they have banned camping, dirt bikes and off road vehicles to "save" the same species of sage brush. It's all about tyranny, not species or the environment.

Spider
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Stand offs…..They come and

Stand offs…..They come and they go.

http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/incident-at-ruby-ridge

In 1993, Weaver and Harris were acquitted by a federal court on murder, conspiracy, and other charges related to Degan’s death, but Weaver was convicted of failing to appear for trial on the firearms charge. In 1994, the two men filed federal civil rights cases against the FBI and U.S. marshals stemming from the siege, and in 1995 the government settled Weaver’s case for $3.1 million.

The controversial standoff spawned a nationwide debate on the use of force by federal law enforcement agencies, and a U.S. Senate panel accused the federal agencies involved of “substantial failures” in their handling of the Ruby Ridge operation. Of particular controversy was an FBI “rule of engagement” implemented at the beginning of the Ruby Ridge siege that stated “any armed adult male observed in the vicinity of the Weaver cabin could and should be killed.” Many condemned this policy as unconstitutional. Rumors that the FBI had engaged in a cover-up regarding the Ruby Ridge operation were verified when E. Michael Kahoe, former chief of the FBI’s violent crimes section, pleaded guilty to obstruction of justice in 1996. Kahoe, who had destroyed an official bureau critique of the standoff, was sentenced to 18 months in prison.

Bruce Libby
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Oh how many will be

Oh how many will be disappointed if this doesn't turn into another Ruby Ridge etc.etc. !

Mainelion
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My guess is that the only one

My guess is that the only one who'll be disappointed is you Bruce.

Roger Ek
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Lon Horiuchi, the government

Lon Horiuchi, the government sniper who killed Mrs. Weaver who was breast feeding her infant in her doorway, was promoted for his work. He will Iive a long good life on his government pension.

Some names you just never forget.

Islander
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I think quite a few big

I think quite a few big government typeswill be sorely dissapointed if this isn't nipped in the bud. Time for Obama to show off his drone skills right at home, that will keep the masses in line.

Bruce Libby
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No Mainelion I just wish the

No Mainelion I just wish the group would go home and move on.
I note all the background/ grievances posted , referenced here ,some which have absolutely nothing do with the event today,
totally lack any mention other actions attempts to deal with the issue ,in any other means. One would think that would lend credence etc.
to the issue , maybe more than sitting around with their guns.
On top that I do not keep bringing up past events such as Ruby and Waco etc.. Which I have never agreed with or attempted to justify and or use
in any other thread.

As is the case , behaviors can take away and surpass the original issue ,diverting from it. Which is to bad.

Ugenetoo
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Some more links in this

Some more links in this article telling the back story the MSM (and, apparently AMG) refuses to acknowledge.

"The other side of the BLM coin is the government agency (Bureau of Land Management). However, to the BLM can be added numerous state and federal bureaucracies known by their alphabet titles—EPA, F&W, USFS, USDA, IRS, etc. And every one of them has regularly employed strong-arm tactics to divest individuals of their wealth, land and livelihood. Much to government and media chagrin, the confrontation in southeast Oregon’s Harney County is a harbinger of citizens becoming more vocal and active in invoking their inalienable rights. No matter where one stands on the involvement of Ammon and Ryan Bundy, the fact is that they are the ones who made this egregious miscarriage of justice front page news. Before their investigating and stepping in, very few knew of the Hammond family railroading or how such engineered legal action furthers government assaults on private land ownership."

http://canadafreepress.com/article/78034

Roger Ek
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Usenet correctly observes:

Usenet correctly observes: "However, to the BLM can be added numerous state and federal bureaucracies known by their alphabet titles—EPA, F&W, USFS, USDA, IRS, etc. And every one of them has "

To which I would add that every one of them has its own SWAT team armed by the feds.

Bruce Libby
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See if one doesn't agree with

See if one doesn't agree with the tactic used they are ignoring backstory!

Quite to the contrary its the tactic that is disagreed with.

Yes Roger, they all have SWAT as do most LE agencies . So what? Oh if they are used then that becomes the backstory forever whether
related to Oregon or not !!!

Roger Ek
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Bruce wonders, "So what?"

Bruce wonders, "So what?"

If the DEP has a complaint, they should go to the local judge and seek a warrant specifying the alleged violation of a DEP rule. A sheriff's deputy can serve the warrant specifying when the citizen needs to appear in court. There is absolutely no need under the law for for the DEP to show up, ransack the citizen's house, shoot grandma and the dog and find out they had the wrong address. It happens all the time because they are "the authorities".

That's what! We have reached a point in our nation where citizens are fed up with that BS. Some of them have a motto. "No more free Wacos". Maybe one of these times "the authorities" pull one of those stunts, they will be ones hunted down at their homes.

"So what?" Indeed!

Ugenetoo
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Bruce

Bruce
If not for the "tactic", used by the occupiers, how would the Hammond's disgraceful treatment be anything other than a footnote in the local paper's court news?
I applaud the Bundys and other ranchers who took time out of their busy lives (unlike unemployed Occupy Wallstreeters) to bring this and many other big government land grab schemes to light.

Bruce Libby
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If this doesn't happen Roger

If this doesn't happen Roger then what ?I am all for resolution. Feds should give land back to town or county then becomes a local issue.
Sell land to ranchers everyone is happy.
Get those mean Feds out of it !

Bruce Libby
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Ok

Ok
They have brought it to light.
Which has resulted in what resolution ?

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