You know it intimately, dear.
maybe MHPC can get him to come to Maine
and talk to our republicans in the Legislature
and party bigwigs.
No need to sell it Dist...I ain't buying.
I am amazed at the insight and how different aspects of "L"iberalism are all tied together to make the over all point. I have always though the left has craved a utopian fantasy where there is no war, everyone has equal amounts of everything, and we all sit around the camp fire playing with our belly button lint singing Koombaya. Honestly if it were possible I think all of us would want that. But practically it just aint gonna happen. It completely ignores human nature. Some people are ambitious, some people are lazy, some people are artistic others are more technically oriented. The left tries force a one size fits all solution down our throats and it will never work. It is fundamentally true that, even with all it's flaws, capitalism is the best system to efficiently support a large population. I seriously doubt the communist party had a ministry of outhouse delivery, but in capitalism someone sees an unfullfilled need and creates a business to to fill it. Hence the Blow Bros. If he/she makes a lot of money others will jump in and create self regulating competition. The perverbial invisible hand of capitalism takes care of all needs.
I am totally confused on why the left consistantly refuses to acknowledge the war on Terror. If those towel heads ever get a serious foot hold here and start to impose Sharia law, the first heads to roll will be the classic liberal constituency groups.
Overall I enjoyed the speech and I thought it was dead nuts on.
I'm up to about ten minutes so far, and will finish.
What I've seen so far seems very thoughtful.
Oh...one other important distinction: liberals don't believe evil exists, unless you count conservative ideology.
Mel - respectfully - codswallop.
[quote]Mark's comments are indeed reasoned. But that's not what I was looking for when I started this thread.[/quote]
I can tell.
[quote="Mark T. Cenci"]I think he made a very good analysis of the effects of post modernist thought.
Beyond that, I can't agree with his justification for the Iraq war, and still believe a more non-interventionist foreign policy is better for America.[/quote]
So did the America firsters in the 1930's. They also were wrong.
Haven't you moved to Idaho yet?
[quote]The peace-mongers represent, in large part, a different motivation. They want peace, but have no means of influencing any country but the US. So they find it easy to convince themselves that the US is the root of all war. Otherwise they are confronted with their uselessness.[/quote]
I was struck by that in the 60's and 70's when the post colonial countries of the world were busily quoting communist rhetoric while stealing their folk blind and murdering anyone who objected and the US left was working 24/7 to blame the USA and evil foreign policy for it.
Find a butcher like Castro with a conservative death toll of about 50,000 per the UN and Amnesty International and we have a good old boy to the left, then think of Pinochet who had about 3400 of his folk killed in 17 years and we have an international monster.
The difference, while there are Che shirts for the american cocktail party revolutionaries to wear, there is no Pincohet chic.
No one in any leftist mass murdering state pays the least attention to our leftists BUT, conservative governments and free government everywhere have to live in fear of our lefts whims, so the left spends their time blasting us and ignoring the real evil in the world. Worse, they deny the evil even exists.
[quote="Mark T. Cenci"]Haven't you moved to Idaho yet?[/quote]
Two things are necessary...
1. An economy in maine better than most 3rd world countries so I can sell my home
2. Folk willing/able to pay what the place is worth, but i repeat myself.
Last month less than 1000 homes sold in the entire state....my time will come. :wink:
Yes, because heaven forbid someone should disagree .....[/quote]
Takes one to know one, doesn't it UC? I hear it is utterly impossible to be a conservative on college campus these days without going through hellish harassment by liberals. I heard a conservative student on the radio today give a rather gruesome account of that. But of course, he was a conservative so he was lying, right?
[quote]Anyway, I watched about 5 minutes (listened really) the the same crap about how liberals hated America (if I hated it I would move a couple hundred miles to Canada) and then noticed he was at the Heritage Foundation. I closed the window at that point.[/quote]
You did, didn't you. What happened? The speaker hit too close to home? Were you afraid of being confronted with the truth about yourself? Funny. You liberals never have any problem hearing it about other people.
Why, you bunch of cowardly hypocrites.
I knew this was going to be fun. :twisted:[/quote]
The TRUTH, in YOUR opinion. Or in this case the Heritage Center. Kinda like, the TRUTH, you can cut 1 billion out of maine's medicaid WITHOUT cutting services to anyone. Giver me a break they just spew their conservative garbage.
Jim, you are fortunate to be in a position where you can wait it out.
[quote="Naran"]Mel - respectfully - codswallop.
I can tell.[/quote]
You can tell what? ... oh, wait ... I get it. :roll:
What on earth are you so uptight about, Naran? You asked me a question and I answered it. Politley, even.
Anyway, this also ran its course. The three pages I read filled my expectations and confirmed what I already knew.
Lucille, thank you. Excellent post.
I'll bite. First I've taken notes from his speech by topic:
1. 60s radicalism became 70s mainstream. [b] OK. [/b]
2. I'm a 9/13 Republican. When liberals talked about America being imperialst after 9/11 I realized they really do hate America. [b] So it was wrong to wonder why we were attacked? The Right seems to feel it is sacralige to ask these questions: Does the fact that the CIA funded and trained Bin Laden teach us anything about our efforts to influence other countries? That perhaps we can realize that our actions have some unexpected reactions? The best intended acts may have horrific results. I can say "lets rip OBL limb from limb and hang his flesh on stakes around Ground Zero" AND say "We created OBL through our assistance with the CIA, through our involvement in Saudi Arabia... we should learn from that mistake." This speaker sees the world only in one dimension: We were attacked. We must attack. Life is more complex than that. [/b]
3. How can you live in the least imperalist nation in history and see imperialism? [b] Great comment. Least imperialist in history? So Tongo and Haiti were more imperialist that the US? What an idiotic comment. Our entire history is one of imperialism - from moving West and taking over Indian territory to moving South and taking over Mexican territory to sailing south and west to take over Guam and Puerto Rico... to our actions in invading Grenada, and other countries and imposing our values... those could seem pretty imperialist to the people living in those countries. I am NOT putting down our history.. I think we've been more benign than evil, but we have evil in our history. Just the history of Guatemala alone would make one shudder. The American Fruit company (run by a family member of then Sec of State) was facing a socialist government that was cutting into its monopolistic profits, so we organized and staged a coup with a bloodthirsty dictator who took over, protected American Fruit and led to 20 years of bloodletting, mass murder and genocide of the mountain indians. It was horrific result EXCLUSIVELY created by our involvement to protect an American monopoly. Not much there to be proud of. [/b]
4. How can you live in the least bigoted nation in history and see racism? [b] Least bigoted nation in history???? We had slavery long after weeny Europe renounced it. We had segregation less than 50 years ago. Lest bigoted?? And its wrong to recognize that its unlikely that racism would be completely eradicated in 50 years? Please. This guy is delusinoal. [/b]
5. Democrats are wrong on just about every issue... literally every issue. Its not just wrong, Its as wrong as wrong can be. [b] So Dems who voted 98% to authorize war with Iraw were "literally wrong"? And when they supported 100% the assault on Afghanistan they were "literally wrong"? And whey they voted with Rs to pass the Patriot Act they were wrong? Its one thing to say you disagree with much of what the opposition does, its another to use this guy's absolute hyperbole. [/b]
6. The modern liberal will invariably side with evil over good, with wrong over right. [b] Again, supporting the war in Afghanistan and Iraq was siding with evil? Fighting for cleaner air is siding with evil? fighting to ensure bald eagles don't go extinct is evil? Opposing funding for the bridge to no-where is siding with evil? Holding marches in DC to bring attention to the genocide (as Bush has called it) in Darfur is siding with evil? Again, absolute hyperbole designed to bring hate to the audience, not intelligent debate. [/b]
7. Give a liberal the choice to side with Saddam or the US they will side with Saddam. [b] Except that Dems voted overwhelmingly to give Bush authority to invade Iraq and oust Saddam... but why dwell on little details like that. Honestly, I feel only four letter words can be used to describe my opininos of a guy like this. Coulter, just less good looking. Looking to cash in on Hate of All Things Even Remotely Left Wing. [/b]
8. Liberals want to promote sex violence and vulgarity as part of their agenda. [b] Except that Tipper Gore fought for years to have video games labled becausee she was appaled by them. Again, details and facts I suppose only get in the way of good old fashioned hate propoganda. [/b]
Honestly, Lucille, its hard to listen to this kind of vitriol. Fine. If this guy hates liberals and Dems so much, why doesn't he move to a country where they don't exist? He is saying he loathes almost 50% of America. This kind of guy makes me sick. I can't keep listening to this hate filled diatribe. I've tried, but I can't. I can listen to an hour of Rush because he seems to at least work with a base of facts (then twists them all to heck to put down liberals). This guy doesn't even start with any base of facts. He just goes straight to one conclusion: Liberals are evil.
I've provided my thoughts in answer to some of his vitriol above. Do with it what you will.[/b]
LL, I think you and I agree on what constitutes a "non-interventionist" foreign policy. Guatemala was a good example of what we need to avoid going forward. I've about had it with people who think it means we don't participate in the world or worse, that we maintain a weak defense. But I guess it serves their delusions.
I've actually been listening to this guy this evening.. I've tried to have an open mind, but he's unbearable.
He says things like "to be a liberal requires you to reject intelligence, honor decency, integrity" etc etc.
He has provided no single example of a liberal belief or principle, just conclusions about liberals.
Gee, he sounds just like Lucille, or Jim.
Mel - I was referring to your comment that liberals don't believe that evil exists. I know some, and they do.
Lucille - your posts are informative, but I can't help wondering how much more informative they might be, without the pot-stirring that comes along with them.
If your aim is sincerely to inform, rather than poking the hornet's nest, it might just be worth a think.
Marc - I agree...
Lucille - we miss you.
Seems to me any attempt to categorize and characterize groups, which are really individual people, will be problematic. Liberals this. Right wingers that. The closer you look, the weaker the case. There is one thing that is a common current throughout, and that is thought processes at work in reality. Thought processes can be characterized, not as liberal thought or conservative thought, but as correct and incorrect thought.
Or do some people not need to look both ways before crossing the road?
[quote="Mark T. Cenci"]Jim, you are fortunate to be in a position where you can wait it out.[/quote]
Not much choice...I just paid the taxes on the sale of my home in SC and found everyone had their fingers in that deal, the Feds ($7800), SC ($4400) and Maine (about $2400). We need to recoup.
That is over $14K on a gain of $77K.....
Greedy buggers, government.
[quote]He says things like "to be a liberal requires you to reject intelligence, honor decency, integrity" etc etc.[/quote]
I agree, he is not being specific enough. He should have said to be a DEDICATED liberal... :D
OK, Naran. At last count, 73.21% of liberals reject the notion of evil, and that is sufficient to drive their policy positions.
Mel - which liberal source are you liberally quoting?
[quote="Naran"]Mel - which liberal source are you liberally quoting?
On the nature of evil, I think this quote applies:
[quote]Over the years, I have come to understand a critical difference between the world of fear and the world of freedom. In the former, the primary challenge is finding the inner strength to confront evil. In the latter, the primary challenge is finding the moral clarity to see evil â€“ Natan Sharansky.[/quote]
We live in a world where a good chunk of one political philosophy simply lacks the moral clarity to see evil.
I believe moral relativism is the operative term.
[quote="JIMV"][quote="Mark T. Cenci"]Haven't you moved to Idaho yet?[/quote]
Last month less than 1000 homes sold in the entire state....my time will come. :wink:[/quote]
Why you leavin when you seem to fit right in?
I heard yesterday on the radio that Maine wasn't suffering the real estate downturn that the rest of the country was. According to the (always reliable & honest) radio, Maine has had an [i]increase[/i] in the median value of homes sold this year over last, and there have been about the same # of homes sold in Maine this year as there were last year.
Let me be more specific. Anyone who says "we need to understand these people" or "we can solve this problem by talking" or who otherwise thinks that we can bribe them from wanting to kill all the infidels is in denial of evil.
Letters appear regularly in my paper taking this position, from the same crowd that thinks if we stop building Navy ships at BIW the world will suddenly turn peaceful, that dictators will turn into flower children, and that wahabbis will suddenly become "tolerant." They tell us not to "judge them."
Worst is that many of these letters come from clergy, who as I see it, should be best equipped to understand good and evil.
Phooey. Phooey squared.