Biden says Iraq war wasn't worth `horrible price'

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Nortasaurus
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Biden says Iraq war wasn't worth `horrible price'

What an idiot. The democrat party just never thinks beyond their base. Imagine how many veterans or families will read this and wonder why do I have to suffer this indignity? Doesn't he realize how hurtful this is, just like the attitude about Vietnam vets. A total lack of feeling.

IT'S THE MISSION STUPID!

LMD
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So true, Nortasaurus. But, as

So true, Nortasaurus. But, as my dear old Dad (who served 30 years in the Marine Corps) would say (paraphrased):
"Oh well....that's why we fought and served. So people like him could voice whatever opinion they have and not worry about the consequences of being so stupid. Someone has to protect them from themselves. Ain't America grand?"

charlie neville
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When you look at US dead and

When you look at US dead and injured, dollars expended, and loss of prestige around the world; versus what's been accomplished I tend to agree. It's been a wasteful endeavor and should never have been undertaken.

charlie

Roger S
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Speaking of lost prestige,

Speaking of lost prestige, how great would the loss of prestige have been if characters like Obama and Biden had carried the day and we had retreated from Iraq with our tails between our legs?

Now the clown Biden is claiming Iraq as one of this administration's greatest successes.

charlie neville
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My point in the previous was

My point in the previous was the initial engagement was the mistake! There was no objective, clearly defined goal to signify victory. The goal morphed from WMD..., to whatever.

Osama bin Laden still appears to be taunting us to this day, in Afghanistan or Pakistan. NOT Iraq!

The sooner we bring them all home the better. What I understand our current objectives to be in either is not worth the life of another US military person!

charlie

Nortasaurus
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Mr.Neville, whether you think

Mr.Neville, whether you think that or not, out of respect for those WE SENT, keep those thoughts to yourself, especially the VP. Personally, I would have to leave your presence if you broached the subject that way in ear shot. Friday at the Hogan Road KFC, I made sure to thank the only soldier in there for his service and blessed him in Jesus' name. My liberal kids can talk to me about almost any subject politically, except the wars we fight in.

As to these conflicts, I agree it is time to bring them home. Who cares if that creep is still alive, give him enough rope and like any criminal he would hang himself.

charlie neville
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You brought this up, I

You brought this up, I didn't, Nortasaurus. I responded to your post. You don't like my post, tough sh*t. I've no problem with those who went, my problem's with those who sent them!

Jesus doesn't enter into it for me.

charlie

Nortasaurus
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Jesus enters into everything,

Jesus enters into everything, Charlie, whether you like it or not.

Yes, I brought it up. If you had with your attitude about the subject, my response would have been the same. Profanity with or without the omissions is unnecessary.

Al Greenlaw
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Charlie how about 17 UN

Charlie how about 17 UN Resolutions, most of which had to do with human rights and the removal of Saddam? How about the fact that just about every country and politicians from both parties in this country, all thought that Iraq had WMD's? There were defined goals and objectives, You are free to disagree with them or even discrdit them, but that does not alter the fact that Saddam is gone, Iraq is a better country today, and the people of Iraq are freerer today than at any time in the last half century. It still could all fall apart, but at least for now, a brutal dictator is gone and the Iraqis have a brighter future.

Al

charlie neville
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Still, in my opinion, not

Still, in my opinion, not worth the cost.

Nortasaurus, You may want to check your dictionary. There is a difference between profane and vulgar.

charlie

thejohnchapman
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"My point in the previous was

"My point in the previous was the initial engagement was the mistake!"

I agree. The resources could well have been used elsewhere, same war, same ultimate objective, bigger bang for buck. I do not berate our leaders for making an incorrect decision. If one is going to make tough calls, one runs the risk of getting one wrong. (Note that many opposing peaceniks had previously said that the Afghan war was unjust - because their involvement in 9/11 wasn't "proven".)

Also, once in, the job needed to be finished. Still, if we hadn't gone into Iraq, we could have vacuumed out Afghanistan, allied with pakis to squash Taliban on the border, swept out the Somalia pirates and probably a couple other tasks.

Nortosaurus:

Your reply suggests that Jesus would have been in favor of the war in Iraq.

Matt. 26:52 "Put your sword back in its place," Jesus said to him, "for all who draw the sword will die by the sword."

On balance, I think even hinting that Jesus would have been rah-rah about the Iraq war is unsupportable.

mainemom
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I think when we do "what ifs"

I think when we do "what ifs" about alternate scenarios to the invasion of Iraq, we have to use the status quo ante as a given.
We were flying missions over Iraq to enforce a cease fire, the terms of which Saddam had repeatedly violated.
When we routed AQ and the Taliban in Afghanistan, Saddam welcomed some of the terrorists to Iraq.
Meanwhile the world's intelligence agencies were fairly sure Saddam was operating an illicit nuclear program.
I submit that following an event like 911 on his watch, no American president would take the risk of allowing Saddam to remain in power.

Nortasaurus
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You read a lot into that

You read a lot into that comment Chapman which I will not elaborate on other than to say, "he who has ears, let him hear." Try to get your mind around the fact that Jesus is the God of both testaments and that the rain falls on both the just and the unjust, but the choices are ours. Defending Israel is objective #1 for the US as the Jews are His people and whoever defends or befriends them will be blessed, those who do otherwise, well, you can decipher that. Throw in the fact that oil is a national security issue and there is reason enough to invade Iraq. Hey, if someone had tried to kill my father? The rest is history and he was tried and convicted by his peers.

Alright, so I elablorated.

thejohnchapman
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Nort: Actually, we could,

Nort:

Actually, we could, instead, have done a surgical strike into Iran. That would have done oodles more for everybody's security (including Israel's) than the unnecessary incursion into Iraq.

Indeed, as the buildup was occuring, I was wondering if it might not be the greatest example of misdirection in history. Iran would have been a pushover, and as we now know, they DO have a WMD program -- now pretty far along.

Mike G
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Iran is a signor of NPT and

Iran is a signor of NPT and has every right to have nuclear power and material for peaceful uses. There is no proof that Iran has a nuclear weapons program regardless of what AIPAC and Bill Kristol maintain or TJC for that matter.

MickeyH
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You know Mike G....you can

You know Mike G....you can blame AIPAC for everything wrong in you're life but I feel pretty darn comfortable with the Israeli intel on this one. Like I've said over and over with you. ....WE CAN'T PLAY CHICKEN...why can't you grasp that. I'm getting tired of going around and around with you on it.

Vikingstar
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"There is no proof that Iran

"There is no proof that Iran has a nuclear weapons program regardless of what AIPAC and Bill Kristol maintain or TJC for that matter."

Right. That's why they've been proclaiming the destruction of the "cancer in the Middle East" by Allah's cleansing fire.

That's why they've refused overtures from the United States and Europe to recieve civilian nuclear power technology.

That's why they are building nuclear facilities in military bases, under military control--or in heavily populated areas, as if to invite tremendous civilian casualities if attacked.

That's why they've been observed firing missiles off of ships and detonating them high in the atmosphere, as if practicing for an EMP attack.

Those poor Iranians--being forced by evil neocons to build a nuclear weapons infrastructure, and issue threats about the death of Israel and America.

Mike G
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http://www.bu.edu/phpbin/buni

http://www.bu.edu/phpbin/buniverse/videos/view/?id=425

By suggestion from Vikingstar I googled ole man Chomsky and got this recent lecture on video which in the 1st quarter of it discusses NPT and Iran and US.

The entire lecture and Q & A is long and discusses Israel/US/Palistine issues. I'd suggest anyone concerned about blowback watch it.

wv_republican
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Biden just shows, once again,

Biden just shows, once again, how out of touch he is (I REALLY cleaned it up, don't want to be profane/vulgar). Now we have a situation more dangerous than before. Those troops set this back from happening by 10 years. For the leftists still infected with BDS, note the report is from PBS, not the "far right wing media."

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/gunning/etc/arsenal.html

Mike G
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WV and yet they never could

WV and yet they never could really find any WMD of significance, it was all moved to syria or buried or evaporated.

We watched Powell sell his intelligence to the UN and it was all in all BS. Made up crap to sell a war, same kind of propaganda that is going on now to drum up a war with Iran.

It is all about America wanting nation X regime change and making the case to bring it about. It is America wanting puppets that it can control and getting rid of tyrants and putting in new tyrants. It is nation building and if you asked the average voter if they were willing to spend a trillion dollars to build nations in the middle east they would say NO.

BUT if you tell them that we have to spend a half trillion (it always costs more than they say) to take out a madman with his hand on a bomb they will say maybe or yes. It is the selling of intervention to make the war profiteers happy and rich.

MickeyH Don't post, then we won't go round and round. After viewing Chomsky, I believe I have been too hard on Israel, it is America that has the say.

Vikingstar hutz┬Ěpah

Vikingstar
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"Vikingstar

"Vikingstar hutz┬Ěpah"

Huh?

Great. Joining the ranks of "Blame America First", eh? It may fit into your present mindset, but you might want to fact-check Chomsky before you decide to join him.

And why is it that among the America-blamers and Neo=Con and Bush haters, that the man most responsible for the whole Iraq mess ALWAYS avoids any blame, or even mention? And if I hear that "Bush rushed us into war" again, I'm gonna hurl; there was two Congressional resolutions, and how many votes and trips to the UN (where we discovered beyond any shadow of doubt how corrupt and useless an organization it is)? How long did it take to move forces into the region? How many warnings did Hussain get?

Chomsky...maybe I'll just hurl, anyway.

charlie neville
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We, the US, need do nothing

We, the US, need do nothing about Iran other than provide intelligence to supplement the Israeli's. Its their ass on the line here, and as past has shown they're very capable. Our taking any action would be a serious mistake. Troops on the ground? Stupid!

charlie

Mike G
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Vikingstar No one ever said

Vikingstar

No one ever said that any of these tyrants in the middle east in a perfect world should be there.

This is the hutzpah in our foreign policy. We invade two countries on either side of Iran, occupy them for 8 years and counting and build numerous permanant bases.

Then we say Iran is threatening the peace in the region, they continue with their missle programs and supply weapons to our enemies, they are a threat to Israel. Well that last sentence is certainly true, but who invaded two countries and have occupying troops on the ground and threaten Iran repeatedly every chance we get.

We have the means to completely destroy them and occupy them and have shown that we are an aggressive war-like country with 716 bases across the globe and spend as much on the military as the rest of the world combined?

They shoot some rockets in the air and try to gain some resistance from becoming another satellite state of the American Empire and THEY are the threat. They are the axis of evil? Blame anyone but America is what is occuring here.

Now if you can begin to see that point, we have this point, American foreign policy never changes, remember MR Hope and Change, really Mr business as usual. Nothing has changed in foreign policy under Obama. He is the third term of bush, the fifth term of clinton.

Then we have the main issue, we have spent ourselves into a hole that we cannot possibly see out of, we can't even tame the regions we have took on and now we are going to double down on deuces and take on Iran and possibly the entire region?

When we bomb Iran and embroil the entire region in war, where are we going to get the ability to defend against the heavy hitters in the world, China, Russia and all the other smaller despots.

We are not the super power we were just after the soviets went under, we have misspent our youth and middle age, we are up to our eyes in debt and without the means to produce a living.

Vikingstar
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You seem to be missing the

You seem to be missing the minor detail that we were attacked by terrorists in one of those states, that the other of those states regularly issued threats, attacked neighbors, and certainly looked like they were trying to build WMDs; then there's the minor issue of the Iranians arming the terrorists who were attacking American troops, and helping them kill Americans--that sorta sounds like an "act of war", but no doubt you will find an excuse for their actions, seeing as you have swallowed the "evil America" bait hook, line and sinker. So, it realy doesn't matter what the Iranians do, or that for a country that is itching and eager to bomb Iran, we seem to be really dragging our feet, or that the Iranians are the ones issueing the threats, not the US or Israelis---no. it's all America's fault.
BTW, the reason why our economy is headed for a major train wreck is not because we've spent money on the military, or "given" money to Israel (you may want to see how much of tha was loan gurantees, and how much was paid back)--the reason why we are bankrupt is because of ponsey schemes like Social Security and an incredibly bloated and wasteful government that has become dominated by all kinds of special interests (of which, before you say it, the "Israeli Lobby" are minor players in).

But hey, you go right ahead and stand with Noam Chomsky and Blame America First proudly.

mainemom
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Mike G, here's an in depth

Mike G, here's an in depth look at the mind of Noam Chomsky.
I have come to think of you as an advocate for individual freedom.
How you can align your views with Chomsky - who lives to deconstruct reality and re-construct it to match his sick world view - is beyond me.

On Chomsky:
_______________________________________________________________________________
The illusion that socialism promises a better future is also the cause of the Chomsky cult. It is the illusion at the heart of the messianic hope that creates the progressive left. This hope is a chimera, but insofar as it is believed, history presents itself in terms that are Manichaean -- as a battle between good and evil. Those who oppose socialism, Marxism, Communism embody worldly evil. They are the party of Satan, and their leader America is the Great Satan himself.

Chomsky is, in fact, the imam of this religious worldview on today's college campuses. His great service to the progressive faith is to deny the history of the last hundred years, which is the history of progressive atrocity and failure.
_______________________________________________________

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