Kerry to Bush, "Wanna' debate service records? Bring it

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Anonymous
Re: Kerry to Bush, "Wanna' debate service records? Brin

Might I be so presumptuous as to propose that history will give George W. Bush a medal... a medal for his response to 9/11, for his war on terrorism, for his righteous attempt to do the right thing, and on and on and on.Service record... service to one's country... does that count?Who started this stupid thread anyway?

Erica N
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Re: Kerry to Bush, "Wanna' debate service records? Brin

MD,AMEN ! And yeah President Bush has done more for this country in his actions after 9/11.. He deserves a medal.One other thing I must repeat for this forum that ive said in other forums. Real heroes do not brag. Real heroes when complimented like my husband a brave honorable firefighter.. when I tell him hes a hero for the lives hes saved he brushes it off and says " I was just doing my job" There is an old firefighter saying that goes... " if we are strong our strength will speak for itself"
John kerry is no hero even if he was.. it wasnt enough for Dole and McCain so give it up already! Stop trying to cover up his most liberal voting record with this bologna.

Second of Four
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Re: Kerry to Bush, "Wanna' debate service records? Brin

Wingman, do you mean medals like the ones Kerry flung over the White House fence? Or were they ribbons? Maybe he has some from the Viet-Cong, after all, he was their ally.

Second of Four
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Re: Kerry to Bush, "Wanna' debate service records? Brin

Maybe Wingman could give us a reason for voting FOR Kerry, other Kerry's not Bush. I have yet to meet a Kerry supporter who can give one reason, or say one word about what Kerry stands for. They all launch into barely coherrant ranting about Bush being AWOL, Bush is not the legitimate President, etc. I thank GOD dumm-dumm Gore was NOT President on 9/11.

Erica N
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Re: Kerry to Bush, "Wanna' debate service records? Brin

I have to say I kinda feel bad for the democrats, look what they we're handed .. they have to swallow some loser like Kerry.. knowing they dont have a candidate that stands for their core beliefs. What can they do? The party left them behind. Its really sad. At least I can say Im not just anti- Kerry ive been Pro Bush since the get go and I enjoy his presidency. Can they say the same about a Kerry Presidency?

Anonymous
Re: Kerry to Bush, "Wanna' debate service records? Brin

quote:Originally posted by Erica N:
[b]I have to say I kinda feel bad for the democrats, look what they we're handed .. they have to swallow some loser like Kerry.. knowing they dont have a candidate that stands for their core beliefs. What can they do? The party left them behind. Its really sad. At least I can say Im not just anti- Kerry ive been Pro Bush since the get go and I enjoy his presidency. Can they say the same about a Kerry Presidency?[/b]

As usual, you make great points! When you think about it, it's true...First the Dems were forced to go for Kerry because he was not Dean... and now they're for Kerry because he's not Bush... which is all to say that they're not "for" Kerry for any reason... they're just against everything else!

Anonymous
Re: Kerry to Bush, "Wanna' debate service records? Brin

I hesitate to use this expression, but ditto to Second of Four.

James
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Re: Kerry to Bush, "Wanna' debate service records? Brin

quote:Originally posted by CitizenDave:
[b]The implosion has begun. All the major networks were finally forced to carry this as they're lead story . Apparently Kerry is now forced to address this mess he's made because polls show support for him dropping like a rock. I believe it was ABC or CBS that reported veteran support for Bush is now at 55% and 37% Kerry. This oughtta be good.[/b]

That veteran number is old and dates from before the book came out and the issue rose.The problem is simple. On the one side we have 254 heros who have told one and only one story. On the other side we have an ever changing story and an attack the messenger defense that does not address the charges.There were 14 separate stories about the Cambodia lie that I had counted by yesterday and I found over 5 stories on the Bronze star events just yesterday alone. Even Capt Rassman (who I do not believe is fibbing, just wrong) has told a few different versions of events with such minor changes as which boat he was on and what happened to all the other boats in the action.Sorry, I buy the swifties.Kerry faked his record

James
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Re: Kerry to Bush, "Wanna' debate service records? Brin

quote:Originally posted by Wingman:
[b]George, please post the medals Bush was awarded for his state-side awol drinking .... then we will be able to compare them with the ones the Navy awarded Kerry .... I mean, how hard can that be for you ...[/b]

You do not get it. Bush is not the issue, Kerry's imaginary war record is.You had your nine months of non stop Bush bashing. You drove the numbers as far down as they are going to go. Now Kerry gets to answer a few questions, or not, and suffer the consequences of his crappy record.

LewistonLiberal
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Re: Kerry to Bush, "Wanna' debate service records? Brin

Your Rightes have an uncanny ability to argue both sides while keeping a straight face.. this from Erika:

quote:His RIDICULOUS claim that Prez Bush must not be against the swift vets because he hasnt denounced them (and he did denounce them) is as off as saying President Bush has never openly denounced traffic jams - he must be for them.

OK. REmember the FUROR because Kerry didn't imediately denounce Tubby Mike Moore for saying Bush was AWOL??? Utter OUTRAGE by the right for Kerrys saying "he has the right to say his mind.."And this little jem from None:

quote: If it had been Bush in Vietnam and Kerry the stateside "dodger", you guys would be telling us what a "hero" Kerry is for having the courage to stay home or awol or whatever. Never heard similar vitriol for Clinton's dodge.

[i] Did you miss the last 10 years??? [/i] It was issue #3 (next to Monika)... non-stop "draft dodger Bill" vitriol...Unreal.Chris.

LewistonLiberal
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Re: Kerry to Bush, "Wanna' debate service records? Brin

"One other thing I must repeat for this forum that ive said in other forums. Real heroes do not brag. "And the reason Kerry has to brag is beacuse the Right Wing have for so many years lied about Dems, suggesting that Dems are too limp wristed to be in the military and they have no knowledge of real manly men activities like war and Dems are essentially a bunch of pansies.That perception has to change. Dems go to war too, despite the Right Wing Hate Propoganda Machine's successful message.Chris.

James
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Re: Kerry to Bush, "Wanna' debate service records? Brin

quote:Originally posted by Lewiston Liberal:
[b]"One other thing I must repeat for this forum that ive said in other forums. Real heroes do not brag. "And the reason Kerry has to brag is beacuse the Right Wing have for so many years lied about Dems, suggesting that Dems are too limp wristed to be in the military and they have no knowledge of real manly men activities like war and Dems are essentially a bunch of pansies.That perception has to change. Dems go to war too, despite the Right Wing Hate Propoganda Machine's successful message.Chris.[/b]

LL, it's not a lie if it's true. The democrats have sponsored about every cut to defense since Vietnam. They have a knee jerk reaction to new weapons systems and voted consistently since Vietnam and even past 911 to cut intel spending.I paint with a very broad brush as the dems used to have rational democrats like Zell Miller, Les Aspin, or even Lieberman, but they are rarer today than conservative democrats in Augusta.The old line "If you do not want fleas do not lie with dogs" comes to mind. It is not a coincidence that the entire anti war movement (which only surfaces when republicans are waging the war) is a democrat fringe organization is proof enough for me. You don't find republicans on the streets in those marches.

Al Greenlaw
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Re: Kerry to Bush, "Wanna' debate service records? Brin

quote:Originally posted by George:
[b]Wingman must have gone blind from masturbating. I answered his question and he just keeps repeating it.[/b]

George I think you answered LMD's question regarding Wingy's stateside medal(s).
;) Al

LewistonLiberal
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Re: Kerry to Bush, "Wanna' debate service records? Brin

quote: It is not a coincidence that the entire anti war movement (which only surfaces when republicans are waging the war)

Except of course vietnam when a Dem was president, and Bosnia when Clinton was president..Do you now see James, that you see the world as you [i] expect [/i] it to be, not always the way it really is?And as for weapons cuts, Bush has attacked Kerry for voting to cut the [i]same[/i] weapons systemts Rumsfeld was ASKING to have cut!Chris.

Al Amoling
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Re: Kerry to Bush, "Wanna' debate service records? Brin

Lewie
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
His RIDICULOUS claim that Prez Bush must not be against the swift vets because he hasnt denounced them (and he did denounce them) is as off as saying President Bush has never openly denounced traffic jams - he must be for them.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------OK. REmember the FUROR because Kerry didn't imediately denounce Tubby Mike Moore for saying Bush was AWOL??? Utter OUTRAGE by the right for Kerrys saying "he has the right to say his mind.."
I thought you were a lawyer and could tell the difference between a candidate trying to stop or encourage a 527 and telling Mikey Moore,(maybe he weighs 527) to lay off. :roll:

LewistonLiberal
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Re: Kerry to Bush, "Wanna' debate service records? Brin

eye... beholder... I give up..c.

John3:16
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Re: Kerry to Bush, "Wanna' debate service records? Brin

Kerry is a liberal lie teller. If he had not made his 4 plus months of service in Vietnam his one and only central campaign issue, THIS ENTIRE NATIONWIDE DISCUSSION OF HIS FALSIFIED RECORD would not be occurring. He served in public office, after Vietnam for 35 plus years, yet hardly a word is offered by Kerry and his cohorts extolling the virtues of his senatorial record - because he is a FLAMING LIBERAL whose record is, frankly, disgraceful, and he KNOWS it significantly reduces his opportunity to be elected presidend of the United States of America.The man has no moral backbone or code of honor that would or could inspire others. His history is that of a philandering panderer to American left wing socialist causes. That you and others defend and promote him brngs you and others no honor or merit.His military record was completely self-serving. His service to Massachusetts was the same. And his service as a United States senator not once has served well the United States of America. He'll not be elected president. His campaign will implode prior to November. TThe majority of American voters will vote for George W. Bush, who has a proven track record of bringing Americans together; who provided a swift and sure response to the Islamo-terrorists who have attacked our country and who intend to kill you and your children; and who, while certainly not perfect in any sense of the word, knows he has been chosen by the American electorate (and in my opinion, by God) to be the best man for the job at this moment in history.Kerry is clearly dishonest. Bush is honest.
Kerry has no focus. Bush is well focused.
Kerry has a flawed moral compass. Bush's moral compass always points to True North.
Kerry is no leader. Bush has a proven record of leadership from the age of 40 onward.
Kerry will lose. Bush will win. America will benefit.

James
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Re: Kerry to Bush, "Wanna' debate service records? Brin

quote:Originally posted by Lewiston Liberal:
[QB]
Except of course vietnam when a Dem was president, and Bosnia when Clinton was president..

Vietnam was a lifetime ago. The democrats became the party of defense cuts. The republicans won the cold war, go figure.As to Bosnia, you jest. No anti-war marches in the hundreds of thosuands there.

LewistonLiberal
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Re: Kerry to Bush, "Wanna' debate service records? Brin

Addendum:John will continue to live in his cave world of shadows.John, you said this..

quote:because he is a FLAMING LIBERAL whose record is, frankly, disgraceful

Please provide 10 votes that support your claim.Chris.

LewistonLiberal
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Re: Kerry to Bush, "Wanna' debate service records? Brin

James:There were protests to Bosnia, you just weren't wanting to see them... there weren't many, but they were there..The reason there were so few (do you really think the average German of Belgian on the street only protests if its a Republican president?? Really???) is because there was UNIVERSAL agreement that we could NOT allow another African Holocaust to happen.Chris.

James
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Re: Kerry to Bush, "Wanna' debate service records? Brin

I am sorry if I was unclear LL, I could not care less about socialists in decadent Europe protesting. Good heavens, they are a dying would power. I was speaking of protest on our streets by americans. Bosnia, miniscule...democrat President
Kosovo, miniscule...democrat president
Iraq, massive and overwhelmingly democrat...Republican president. ;) Oh, and before I forget, I supported both Clinton adventures.[ 08-20-2004: Message edited by: James ]

John3:16
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Re: Kerry to Bush, "Wanna' debate service records? Brin

LL: I no longer accept your diparaging remarks about my world or the world I live in, as you put it. I live in the same world as you - the difference is I accept reality and you seem to have difficulty doing the same. So be it. I'll not be replying to your request for 10 votes or just about anything else you want. It's a sidetrack tactic, and I refuse to participate in your gamesmanship efforts.If you want to believe panderers, phlanderers, and people who lie, twist and otherwise obfuscate the truth, that is your right.You are smart enough to recognize that Kerry is a liberal, and you are smart enough to realize that he, like others of his ilk, are bad and dangerous for our country. If you choose to ignore the red flags that Kerry's candidacy brings up in your mind, that also is your right. And you will likely go on believing what you believe, and you will not be better for it. That also is your right.

Since you have addressed me personally, I'll return the favor: In my opinion, you are a lost soul. And I think that is unfortunate, especially for you. It's especially sad, because you are surely a nice guy, a good neighbor, and a dedicated father and, presumably, husband. You consistently tilt at windmills, rail about inconsequential points (the nonsense about SKF's headline on another thread is a prime example), and seem, to me, to have no real inner compass, except for feelings. And feelings are often deceiving. But, that, too, is your right.You, your family, your city, your state and your country are not well served by the current American liberal philosophies. Our nation is under direct physical attack by militant Islamo-terrorists, and they mean to convert or kill you, me, all of us. They give no quarter, and should be given none in return.Our American values of God given rights, belief in and honoring of God, the traditional family structure, that government should be the servant, not the master of the people, all of these concepts and more are under attack - and have been for decades - by American liberals, and by communists and socialists throughout the world. American liberals seem to me to be people who do not understand the full ramifications and consequences of their actions. That people vote for them simply amazes me. When I see a Dean or Kerry or even Michaud or Baldacci bumper sticker, I know I am looking at a vehicle owned and probably driven by someone who is most likely a nice person, but who does not really understand American history, world history, and who is a reactor, a nonthinker, who lacks substantive thought. These folks, and you, appear to me to be against more things than they are for, and they seem to me to be dangerous to our country and to the American way of life.They, too, are more lost than found, and most of them rarely know it, in my brief life experience.There is right and there is wrong in this world. There is truth and there are lies and deception.
Some things really are black and white. God loves you, LL, and so do I. But, unlike God, who is infinitely more patient than yours truly, I don't have to put up with your foolish sidetracking responses. Kerry is bad for America. Bush is good for America. Kerry made his service in Vietnam his central campaign issue. Yet, his record is not truthful. Pointing that out is not an attack on Kerry, nor is it meanspirited, as liberals put it. It is simply pointing out the truth.Duck it, spin it, twirl it, hide it, obfucate it, divert the topic, do whatever you must to avoid it, but the truth is still the truth. And, yes, as Rev. King said, "the truth shall set you free," but only if you recognize the truth in the first place.

Brent Dickey
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Re: Kerry to Bush, "Wanna' debate service records? Brin

quote:Originally posted by John3:16:
[b]The majority of American voters will vote for George W. Bush....[/b]

There's a first time for everything
;)

John3:16
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Re: Kerry to Bush, "Wanna' debate service records? Brin

Very perceptive of you, Dilligaf. You pick your nits well. :D

AmCitizenDave
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Re: Kerry to Bush, "Wanna' debate service records? Brin

"You, your family, your city, your state and your country are not well served by the current American liberal philosophies. Our nation is under direct physical attack by militant Islamo-terrorists, and they mean to convert or kill you, me, all of us. They give no quarter, and should be given none in return.Our American values of God given rights, belief in and honoring of God, the traditional family structure, that government should be the servant, not the master of the people, all of these concepts and more are under attack - and have been for decades - by American liberals, and by communists and socialists throughout the world. American liberals seem to me to be people who do not understand the full ramifications and consequences of their actions. That people vote for them simply amazes me."AND"There is right and there is wrong in this world. There is truth and there are lies and deception.
Some things really are black and white."I couldn't have said it better!

LewistonLiberal
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Re: Kerry to Bush, "Wanna' debate service records? Brin

quote:I'll not be replying to your request for 10 votes or just about anything else you want. It's a sidetrack tactic, and I refuse to participate in your gamesmanship efforts.

Which is your standard operating procedure John. When faced with any challenge to your unchallengable beliefs, you cringe away behind your wall of religion and pray for me every single time. Its so sad, John. You're intelligent, but I'll bet you have not once looked a Kerry's voting record as a whole. You might have heard about a vote or two (such as assertions he ALWAYS votes FOR abortion) but you have NEVER researched these issues.Democrats in 94 (I think) voted against disaster relief for Texas after the floods. Unthinkable! Until you do a little work and realize Republicans put on an anti-abortion rider at the last second.John, you people your beliefs with almost nothing but opinion. Your opinions are too strong to EVER faulter. You, like Bush, if asked, likely can find you have never made a mistake. Your world is COMPLETELY black and white. There is no nuance.Is killing a baby evil? Yes. Always? Yes.
What if the baby is crying and 100 jews are hiding? Is killing the baby OK? Yes.Is torture OK? No. Every? No.
What if torturing one terrorist will lead to saving thousands of lives? OK. Then its OK.
What if we're not certain the person being tortured has the information? Well, I don't know....
What if we're 80% certain? 60%? 40%?
Where's the black and white in this example, John?Life, John, is a line which stretches between black and white. What you and the Right wing call "flip flopping" is frequently someone actually thinking about an issue, and, just perhaps, realizing there is a better answer than the one presumed to be true.You're a good person at heart, John, but you simply fail to understand that truth is not a blessing conferred only on you...I truly doubt you will really ever understand that..Chris.[ 08-20-2004: Message edited by: Lewiston Liberal ]

Anonymous
Re: Kerry to Bush, "Wanna' debate service records? Brin

Forget Kerry's service record... wait 'till you hear the latest Swift Boat Veterans ad!While his 4 1/2 months performance may have been murky... there's audio and video of his post-war Senate testimony.

Melvin Udall
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Re: Kerry to Bush, "Wanna' debate service records? Brin

Hey, LL: when your mommie told you as a little boy to finish all your dinner and think about all the starving children in wherever, did you call her a bluffing demagogue because she couldn't give you ten names of those starving?

LewistonLiberal
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Re: Kerry to Bush, "Wanna' debate service records? Brin

Mel, That's a pathetic response.This is a political election. John makes an assertion about Kerry's record. I simply ask for a few examples of votes Kerry made that are bad... if they really are bad I would say "hey, you're right, that really does suck!" You know I've been willing to do that in the past...And if you think asking someone to back up a claim is foolish, I despair of you too Mel.I, for one, have not read Kerry's record. I assumed by the certainty of John's posting - knowing him to be an honest man - that John had read the record he was making assertions about... and that it would be very easy to simply post a link with a bunch of bad votes..John failed to do that to my surprise.. I expected a quick backup to a serious claim...I'm sorry if that request offended you Mel.And no, I didn't, because my mom was a mom and I was a kid.Chris.

thejohnchapman
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Re: Kerry to Bush, "Wanna' debate service records? Brin

LL -- re the "10 votes" challenge.A reasonable challenge -- and educational, also.Here's a few more than ten.[url=http://www.ontheissues.org/John_Kerry.htm]http://www.ontheissues.org/Joh...Voted NO on criminal penalty for harming unborn fetus during other crime. (Mar 2004)
Voted NO on maintaining ban on Military Base Abortions. (Jun 2000)
Voted NO on banning partial birth abortions. (Oct 1999)
Voted NO on disallowing overseas military abortions. (May 1999
Voted NO on prioritizing national debt reduction below tax cuts. (Apr 2000)
Voted NO on 1998 GOP budget. (May 1997)
Voted NO on Balanced-budget constitutional amendment. (Mar 1997) Voted YES on prohibiting job discrimination by sexual orientation. (Sep 1996)
Voted NO on Amendment to prohibit flag burning. (Dec 1995)
Voted NO on banning affirmative action hiring with federal funds. (Jul 1995) Voted NO on limiting death penalty appeals. (Apr 1996)
Voted NO on limiting product liability punitive damage awards. (Mar 1996) [astounding -- his votes on actual GUN CRIMES!!]
Voted NO on mandatory prison terms for crimes involving firearms. (May 1994)
Voted NO on rejecting racial statistics in death penalty appeals. (May 1994) Voted NO on increasing penalties for drug offenses. (Nov 1999)
Voted NO on spending international development funds on drug control. (Jul 1996) Voted NO on education savings accounts. (Jun 1998)
Voted NO on school vouchers in DC. (Sep 1997)
Voted NO on $75M for abstinence education. (Jul 1996)
Voted NO on requiring schools to allow voluntary prayer. (Jul Voted YES on targeting 100,000 hydrogen-powered vehicles by 2010. (Jun 2003)
Voted YES on removing consideration of drilling ANWR from budget bill. (Mar 2003)
Voted NO on drilling ANWR on national security grounds. (Apr 2002)
Voted NO on replacing CAFE standards within 15 months. (Mar 2002)
Voted NO on preserving budget for ANWR oil drilling. (Apr 2000)
Voted YES on keeping CAFE fuel efficiency standards. (Sep 1999)
Voted NO on defunding renewable and solar energy. (Jun 1999)
Voted NO on approving a nuclear waste repository. (Apr 1997)
Voted NO on do not require ethanol in gasoline. (Aug 1994) Voted NO on banning lawsuits against gun manufacturers for gun violence. (Mar 2004)
Voted YES on background checks at gun shows. (May 1999)
Voted NO on more penalties for gun & drug violations. (May 1999)
Voted NO on loosening license & background checks at gun shows. (May 1999)
Voted NO on maintaining current law: guns sold without trigger locks. (Jul 1998) Voted NO on repealing Clinton's ergonomic rules on repetitive stress. (Mar 2001)
Voted NO on killing an increase in the minimum wage. (Nov 1999)
Voted NO on allowing workers to choose between overtime & comp-time. (May 1997)
Voted NO on replacing farm price supports. (Feb 1996) Voted NO on Social Security Lockbox & limiting national debt. (Apr 1999)
Voted NO on allowing Roth IRAs for retirees. (May 1998)
Voted NO on allowing personal retirement accounts. (Apr 1998)
Voted NO on deducting Social Security payments on income taxes. (May 1996) Voted NO on eliminating the 'marriage penalty'. (Jul 2000)
Voted NO on across-the-board spending cut. (Oct 1999)
Voted NO on $792B tax cuts. (Jul 1999)
Voted NO on requiring super-majority for raising taxes. (Apr 1998)
Voted NO on FY99 tax cuts. (Apr 1998) [b]To be fair, there ARE a number of votes that could be characterized as pro-conservative.[/b] They are far fewer in number.

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